Curse

Byron · Jul 13, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

If IWAY is such a problem, then its high time to pack some necro hex hate. Shadow of fear and/or Spiteful sprit + wards = gg.

tomcruisejr · Jul 13, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Apple]

To be honest, i (and i hope everyone else does too) think you dont have much credibility as an ex-MATH member.

ouch. harsh. <3

Quote:

Especially when compared to a seasoned tombs-er like Leteci. The good teams have started losing to IWAY (whereas before OoA, IWAY would have no chance in hell against them), which i think is a pretty bad thing to be honest...

iway got nerfed coz of the "all i see is iway in tombs" whine. and iway nerf wasnt confined to a class. key skills to the build were hit.

good balanced tombers now are promising. but the good tombers in the past are now in the top 100 of the ladder.

well you dont have to believe me. but say if you played tombs since Oct-Nov of last year and aware of the iway thing, youll know where im getting at.

Mental Leteci · Jul 13, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

IWAY and TF never supposed to stack,it was more of a bug than anything else. And no matter which IWAY it is,old one or new one. How can you beat something that can kill you with 2 main characters hiding all the way in back? How can you reach OoA necro? Even if you get to him he'll get up at least 2 orders,which is enough to screw up your aegis,guardians,etc. and make your prot monk completely useless. Now you'll say run nr/tranq builds,but why? Now we should limit ourselves just to 1 build cause of IWAY? Isn't it obvious that then we would all be right? That IWAY really ruined tombs? Range of the order is just stupid. What's the point of fighting a team which has 2 MAIN characters (not defensive,how can they be defense when IWAY can't do sh*t without OoA?) outside the fight,but still being most important in it.

Tainek · Jul 13, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

IWAY and TF never supposed to stack,it was more of a bug than anything else. And no matter which IWAY it is,old one or new one. How can you beat something that can kill you with 2 main characters hiding all the way in back? How can you reach OoA necro? Even if you get to him he'll get up at least 2 orders,which is enough to screw up your aegis,guardians,etc. and make your prot monk completely useless. Now you'll say run nr/tranq builds,but why? Now we should limit ourselves just to 1 build cause of IWAY? Isn't it obvious that then we would all be right? That IWAY really ruined tombs? Range of the order is just stupid. What's the point of fighting a team which has 2 MAIN characters (not defensive,how can they be defense when IWAY can't do sh*t without OoA?) outside the fight,but still being most important in it.

I think you Neglect that If the orders is at a far distance, he Isnt Healing, and if he is in healing distance, then he is close enough for you to reach him, if you cant take down the four warriors recieving no healing, then prehaps the problem isnt IWAY, its You

Wards+Necro Hex's=GG Iway
Ritualist Spirts+ Ritualist Weapon Spells (i.e, weapon of warding)= GG Iway

art_ · Jul 13, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

I think you Neglect that If the orders is at a far distance, he Isnt Healing, and if he is in healing distance, then he is close enough for you to reach him, if you cant take down the four warriors recieving no healing, then prehaps the problem isnt IWAY, its You

Wards+Necro Hex's=GG Iway
Ritualist Spirts+ Ritualist Weapon Spells (i.e, weapon of warding)= GG Iway

How does this prove that OoA IWAY is balanced in HA? Again, people stop suggesting that there are counters to IWAY, because people know this, and use them. Just because counters exist to something doesn't mean it isn't imbalanced.

Thom · Jul 13, 2006, 12:20 PM // 12:20

IWAY exists and continues to exist because of the structure of HA. It always ways and will remain a build that maximizes pressure through the simpliest means possible. This hyperaggressive approach forces teams into a defensive stance and almost mindless exploits errors through extreme pressure.

Good team movent is normally a good response to a hyperaggressive gvg team. Tombs maps don't encourage movement and definitely don't reward it. While a good gvg build will be able to stay alive on most maps, eventally they'll have to beat IWAY straight up. HA balanced builds are designed to face IWAY and other heavy pressure employing 3 healers, a warder and mesmers. If you give movement and split builds a fighting chance in HA, you'd be rid of IWAy within a week.

Mental Leteci · Jul 13, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Exactly what I have said. There was counter to Spirit Spam,but it was limiting your builds. Like IWAY is limiting it now. Also, necros are spamming heal party,and warriors run TO THEM and not other way around to get healed. Of course you could take gale and water ele,but like I've said,it's limiting your builds. I don't know what Anet is trying to prove with this,but they better stop their lessons soon.

tomcruisejr · Jul 13, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

IWAY and TF never supposed to stack,it was more of a bug than anything else. And no matter which IWAY it is,old one or new one. How can you beat something that can kill you with 2 main characters hiding all the way in back? How can you reach OoA necro? Even if you get to him he'll get up at least 2 orders,which is enough to screw up your aegis,guardians,etc. and make your prot monk completely useless. Now you'll say run nr/tranq builds,but why? Now we should limit ourselves just to 1 build cause of IWAY? Isn't it obvious that then we would all be right? That IWAY really ruined tombs? Range of the order is just stupid. What's the point of fighting a team which has 2 MAIN characters (not defensive,how can they be defense when IWAY can't do sh*t without OoA?) outside the fight,but still being most important in it.

maybe rushing them and charging the "way" backline (if ritualist and trapper combo, usually those with the 2 necros are close to each other), using wards of foes and melee wisely or some water snares, w-a-s-d-ing, bringing necro hexes, blinds, body blocking say if you dont wanna be confined to nr/tranq builds? or kiting them if you think rushing them wont work?

iway now got only sprint and axe rake to get their OoA-ed axes to hit you. before, move W-A-S-D and there's a very high probability youll step on a trap, massive degen, cripple and knockdowns and warriors will just hit you once or twice and you're dead, and add some nasty putrids from the necro. balled up? 2 trappers, mael/MS, profane, send in the warriors and the game is done. and it wont even need an OoA for a warrior to solo a bonded bonder coz of dual order stacks and high IAS.

iway is weaker in offense now but made stronger coz it got defense comparable to balanced at least (ritualist as protection and 2 necros as healers). OoA is only a problem if you "tank" warriors or you wont even bother getting to the ooa necro.

and of course i wont argue about the HoH (final map) coz the map itself needs a fix.

Mental Leteci · Jul 13, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

No,old IWAY was a joke. Trappers are drained before they even get to us,later they just get staffed. If necro wants to cast maelstrom he needs to be IN RANGE (this is what I was talking about) and he will probablly get interrupted and smashed to death. IMO nerfing range of orders would nerf IWAY.

tomcruisejr · Jul 13, 2006, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

No,old IWAY was a joke. Trappers are drained before they even get to us,later they just get staffed. If necro wants to cast maelstrom he needs to be IN RANGE (this is what I was talking about) and he will probablly get interrupted and smashed to death. IMO nerfing range of orders would nerf IWAY.

how about the warriors? did you just tank them?

maybe yea, the habit was carried over.

llsektorll · Jul 13, 2006, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Only iway i see now adays is the rank9+ groups. Iway is dieing out. NR Traq will obliterate iway.

Mental Leteci · Jul 13, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Oh my God sektor...

Tom, it's not hard. You kite and you have Aegis+Melee. Now it's just melee which can be easily interrupted without guardian or aegis up. Monks used to get mass energy from channeling before,now channeling is down with one hit. I don't see why you IWAY players keep saying how it is easy to beat it,if that's easy to beat it why do you play it? Wouldn't it be easier to play some other build and beat IWAY all the time since it's most used build after smite?

tomcruisejr · Jul 13, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Oh my God sektor...

Tom, it's not hard. You kite and you have Aegis+Melee. Now it's just melee which can be easily interrupted without guardian or aegis up. Monks used to get mass energy from channeling before,now channeling is down with one hit. I don't see why you IWAY players keep saying how it is easy to beat it,if that's easy to beat it why do you play it? Wouldn't it be easier to play some other build and beat IWAY all the time since it's most used build after smite?

well, i'm not saying it's easy to beat (unless you're an nr/tranq player). but compared to the new iway, old one is more superior in terms of dmg output (all of the 8 classes contribute (from dmg, degen, conditions, cripples, kds, dmg buffs)). now its just 4 warriors with reduced attack speed and OoA (maybe that's why nr/tranq builds feast on ooa iway). the 4 remaining classes are mainly defensive, but still substandard.

comparing the two in terms of offense, 4 warrior and ooa should not be a threat. but they are coz they have stronger defense and can stay up longer and dish damage. and how do you tackle a team with a defense?

we used to chant before "no monks, no heal" when we're waiting in the vault (that's what all the iways have been doing, taking down the defense first (from oldschool to newschool)). in your case, maybe it will be better if you charge the orders. usually a trapper is in nearby and the ritualist too. so 4 birds in 1 stone. and dont forget to bring Soothing.

dbgtboy · Jul 13, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

how to kill ooa iway, RUSH THEM BEFORE THEY RUSH YOU (this one is very important), once they are rushed you stick onto the necs like glue, if necs change position, let your team follow them so they are always in your range to kill, i have never beaten a team who kept pushing our orders, without orders your monks should be able to keep your team up vs 4 wars.

you can be running anything, if you follow these instructions and lose, there is something wrong with your team.

icantthinkofonerightnow · Jul 14, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Well the OOP/OOA have to be in range if 1 player is getting heavily spiked (Heal Party can in no way out heal the damage) to use Infuse Health/Heal Other, right?

Mental Leteci · Jul 14, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Now they nerfed smiting and they didn't do anything to IWAY. Smiting was one thing that could easily pwn IWAY,it's obvious what ANET is doing. Whata bunch of retards.

Defendpeace Necros · Jul 14, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

omg just quit the game ffs, mod close this whining thread already...

Mental Leteci · Jul 14, 2006, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Says the IWAY guy. If you don't like discussion in here don't even open this thread,ok? kktnxbai

art_ · Jul 14, 2006, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defendpeace Necros

omg just quit the game ffs, mod close this whining thread already...

uninstall life imo.

dbgtboy · Jul 14, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

iway isnt RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing overpowered, cant you get that through your head? ask any decent player if iway is overpowered and you will have your answer. How did smiting easily pwn iway? i rolled almost every smite team i faced, strip zealots and gg.